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so i stripped all my diapers, even my new bamboo ones. haven't got around to going back to cloth until yesterday since we were out of town. i put one on Sammy and when i went to change him just a little while after got a HUGE wiff of ammonia again!! so what's going on? i thought stripping them would do it? i washed them 6 times in nothing but water. both kids get such a bad rash from this ammonia smell, any ideas/thoughts? TIA!
Stacy
Mommy to
Lilian 6*13*05
Sammy J. 1*19*07 |
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| Again, I raise the theory that it might just be the pee itself. Ours just stopped after about a week - and I did nothing different with my wash routine. It has been really hot here - but I don't know where you are. Are you getting rashes this time? We never had any rash, just the smell. You might just want to wait a few days and see if it clears up on its own. You might want to try different covers, or no covers (double up the dipes instead) to get lots of air in there. You might have to switch detergent (again) until you find one that doesn't react with your kid's urine. But seriously, I'd be interested to see what happens if you just wait a few days to see if it goes away by itself. It is hard to imagine you had any build-up on the bamboo since they are so new. Could something have washed off the bamboo onto the other diapers also (I know this can happen with new hemp if you prewash them with the other diapers)? Could it make a difference using the diapers for a girl and a boy? I mean, have you ever tried having one group of diapers for her and a seperate group for him? I'm just brainstioming here - I hope that doesn't sound like a totally stupid idea. Could there be something in your water - do you know anyone else where you live who uses cloth? That's all I can think of for now - it is a shame you are having so many problems with these diapers! |
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well this time we have a terrible rash, right in my son's most sensitive area (his little balls) have a open rash that looks like it really really hurts. he's been a little fussy when i open his diaper too. the rash has been on both my son and daughter now, so don't think it's a gender thing. i did wash the bamboos and the cotton together, but like i said i stripped them all reguardless of what kind they were just to be safe. i really don't want to go to disposables, but i don't know if i can make my babies tushies suffer... *ug*
Stacy
Mommy to
Lilian 6*13*05
Sammy J. 1*19*07 |
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I'm also in the process of stripping diapers due to rash, ammonia smell. The rash is mainly around my baby's thighs. I thought the covers were too tight at first, but I've changed that and it didn't seem to help. I realized I haven't stripped the covers yet so maybe that's my problem (although that wouldn't explain your son's rash). I am also playing around with the detergent to see if that makes a difference. Meanwhile, I am using fleece liners, sudocream, and lots of air drying to combat the rash.
Have you tried using Dawn to strip your diapers? I tried that the last time I stripped them and it seemed to work (Either that, or after 4 hot water washes, the build-up was finally gone).
Good Luck
Jen |
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| Could it be yeast? Does anyone know if yeast can live in the diapers? You might try treating the kids for yeast and maybe boiling the diapers, or, (last resort time) throw some bleach in with the cotton (I don't know if I'd bleach the bamboo) and then rinse like nuts. Do you use fleece liners? My only other thought is detergent - that something is just reacting badly with your kids. Did you wash with detergent since you stripped them? Do you rinse with vinegar? It could even be that. If it isn't yeast, it just sounds like something is causing this awful reaction and since you just stripped them, it is hard to think what it could be. I guess the other thing you could try is a barrier cream - lots of people like burt's bees although I just use a 40% zinc oxide cream from the drug store. The barrier cream is waterproof so it should keep any "irritant" from sitting on the skin and burning it. The 40% zinc oxide is so tough that we have to wipe it off in the morning (i.e. it is still "coating" his privates even after tons of pee or even sometimes poop when he was a newborn). We use fleece liners when we use the cream. |
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A while back there was a thread about someone having ammonia and a rash, and her doctor recommended soaking the diapers in a very concentrated vinegar/hot water solution to help get rid of the build-up. I'll try to find it and paste the link in here.
Vinegar can cause sensitivity in some babies, but it's not going to cause the ammonia smell.
It does seem crazy that you'd be having build-up on such new diapers (and after 6 plain washes!), but that is what ammonia usually means (okay, maybe not on night diapers, but day dipes really shouldn't have that smell), and if you've got a rash to go with it, there's obviously something wrong.
Do you know if you've got really hard water, or something else like that? I think you've got an HE machine, is that right? In another thread, Karen mantioned that some people put their detergent into the "prerinse," (which is usually plain water) and do the regular wash sans detergent, because HEs are stingier with water and sometimes thorough rinsing is a problem. How much of the recommended detergent amount are you using? I know you've been dealing with different stinky problems for a while, and it can be very frustrating, so hang in there! |
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i was using about 1 table spoon of detergent in my main wash and such a small amount in my pre-wash. well, i think i'm going to swich to to tide free now. i purchased both powder and liquid... i DO have an HE, what do you all use powder or liquid? does it really matter? especially with an HE does it matter? thanks for all your great advice, without you girls i don't think i could get through the little quirks.
Stacy
Mommy to
Lilian 6*13*05
Sammy J. 1*19*07 |
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| Sorry, the boys woke up. Here's the link to the earlier discussion: http://forum.motherease.com/Default.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=1&tid=10807 |
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| Tide makes a free and clear HE detergent that I was using for a while. Tide is about he only HE and "free" detergent you can get. I use Method free or Bio-Kleen now - they aren't HE but are compatable. Liquid or powder shouldn't matter, but I would try to use something designed for HE - they are formulated to work better with the lower water usage. If you aren't using HE detergent, I think that in theory, you could get more build-up faster. |
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| I don't have any answers yet, but my guess is the HE machine at this point (I'll let you know if it ends up being the pee!). I am borrowing some Bun Geniuses from a friend (who did not have an HE) and have added the MotherEase (some thanks to you, Stacy!) to my lot. I have used them about a month and just last week began noticing the ammonia smell, and it happened instantly. I thought maybe it was asparagus from my diet, but when I have used disposables interspersed, I don't notice it. Drying in the sun took away the smell completely and have helped reduce its strength once the diapers get soaked again. Am doing extra washes as people recommend and am waiting it out. Definitely have the same complaints as others do: no smell until wet, then overpowering. HE?? Will keep you posted! |
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| I have an HE too, so maybe that is the problem. I have to say, I never had any problem when I was using Tide HE detergent and have only had a problem since I started using a more environmentally friendly and additive free detergent that is only "HE compatible." |
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Hi, you asked about putting soap in the prewash. In the instructions for our front loader it said to use powder soap in both compartments if you were prewashing. THis is because with liquid it all runs into the first wash cycle. Hope this helps.
My only thoughts on the smell might be the fact that it's summer and the heat.
Good luck, Heidi |
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It could be so many things, it's really hard to pinpoint...
A few random thoughts (sorry if they've already been mentioned, I read through fairly quickly...), I may have already mentioned these in the past as well, can't recall...:
-Try switching detergents. It could be the cause either because your babies are sensitive to it (enzymes can apparently be the culprit for rashes, though mine did fine with it) or because it's building up or because it's not appropriate for cloth.
-Try extra rinses after your regular wash. Some also say that with HE washers you should use two shorter cycles as opposed to one long one because some recycle water
-Try switching to a non 'HE' detergent. It may seem logical (and it does to me too) that HE detergents will be better because they're made to work with your machine but I've read in at least one cloth article that they're not good for cloth diapers, I can't recall specifically why though...
-Try using detergent only in the pre-rinse (as opposed to both the pre-rinse and regular rinse). HEs are often problematic because they're very water efficient and don't rinse out the detergent well enough for cloth diapers (for regular clothes it's not an issue even if there is build-up). The theory is that if you put the detergent in right at the start, it has more of a chance of being rinsed out properly.
-I would also doubt it's build-up so soon after stripping and especially with such new diapers but if the problem is the detergent it's not impossible at all. Did the stripping seem to help for at least the first use or two? If so it could be that the detergent causing the issue and it only needs a wash or two to start causing those problems.
-Are you doing a pre-rinse? If not, start. I've recently read about how the ammonia that forms in urine can affect a detergent's working ability because it's designed to work best at a neutral ph and this is disrupted a lot by the ammonia.
-The rash could indeed be yeast (although the fact that it appeared only with the ammonia smell is suspicious...) and yeast can indeed live in diapers, even after a good washing. If it's yeast you'll need to treat the skin (regular anti-rash remedies don't work, you need an anti-fungal of some kind) and possibly the diapers as the diapers can 'reinfect' the skin. I can go into more detail about this if you think it's a possibility... It could be that the ammonia caused a rash and then yeast got into it (yeast rashes often start as regular rashes and get infected with yeast if the skin is broken).
Hmmm, that's about all I can think of right now... Maybe you could give a detailed history of the problem (when it started, how long you'd been using the diapers before, detergents you've used, techniques you've tried etc...). Might help find a solution and elliminate possible causes as well as check off various solutions you've already tried.
Karen.
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I've recently gotten religion about detergent in front loading wash machines... that is to say, I think in general you need MORE not LESS detergent. I had some major stink problems a while ago and once I started using a WHOLE CAPFUL of detergent guess what...? they went away! I think 1 Tbs is WAY TOO LITTLE to get your dipes clean. Water alone will NOT clean them!! See the thread on www.diaperswappers.com about this:
http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201437
After reading this thread and having gone nuts over stripping, troubleshooting my routine etc, I went out and bought some Tide HE. Regular old blue Tide with the scent and everything. (This was partly based on my observation that my dipes seemed to get clean when I went to my parents house, and to my in-law's house - I thought it was my crappy washer, but they both have Tide, so I figured I'd spend $10 on a bottle of detergent and see if that was what made the difference before springing for a new washer).
I washed my diapers in cold water with Tide HE. Then I did another wash in hot/cold with vinegar but no detergent. Guess what? They're clean! And guess what else? Tide seems to work better than any of the other detergents I've tried (which include: All Free&Clear, Wisk, Green Mountain, Ecover, Earth, Charlies Soap, Dreft). Much better. Next time I might go for the unscented, but for now, why mess with a good thing?? |
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That was an interesting thread and I do agree that many times people do make themselves crazy for nothing. Sometimes it does seem like people are looking for issues with their cloth and I'm not completly innocent of this as I'm an obsessive diaper sniffer. If it doesn't smell completly totally clean (like nothing at all) then I start worrying and contemplating stripping.
I also agree with the previous poster that sometimes people do use too little detergen. It definetly happens (especially now with all the information about detergent build-up out there) but that doesn't mean that detergent build-up isn't a real issue for many people. I also agree though that Tide isn't horrible in all situations. I used it with very few problems for at least 3-4 years. But it did seem to not rinse out properly (and cause occasional mild odor problems) and since I switched to Simple Green and washing soda, I haven't had any smell problems whatsoever...
But I do have a bit of an issue with her 'routine' though. Did anyone else notice how she's putting her diapers through 3 entire cycles? That's a whole whack of water and a whole whack of wear/tear on the diapers. She talks of her routine as being so incredibly simple but 3 cycles doesn't seem quite so simple to me. She talks of never having the need to strip diapers or check for suds like everyone else, but that's surely because she's rinsing the heck out of her diapers each and every time they get washed. Basically she's doing a mini-stripping with each wash. She also mentions never needing special no-build-up detergents, but again, that's highly likely because she's rinsing so much...
Anyway, I do agree with the basic principal that simple is better but I'm not too sure about recomending this specific routine. It's not only not simple but it's a huge waste of water. That's the biggest environemental issue that cloth has and the biggest reason why some say that disposables or gDiapers are better than cloth.
My 2 cents,
Karen.
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my baby got a rash from the detergent we were using. It was red and not just on his sensitive parts, but also on the hips. I switched to Country Save and have had no problems at all. I do use half of the recommended dose and a cold prerinse hot wash warm second rinse.
My family is allergic to Tide and Bleach in the laundry, so that is not an option for us. I suggest trying different things one at a time to eliminate the problem. i.e use a different detergent for a few days, add or subtract vinager, add a cold prerinse, use a wet pail changing out the water daily. |
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I agree with Karen, three cycles (esp. in a top loader) is a heck of a lot of water to be using (and electricity, and gas to heat the water)! And time, yikes.
I find the ammonia-caused-by-bacteria theory interesting; I have to wonder about the science behind it: has anyone read anything anywhere that would lend credence to that? Bacteria just doesn't seem very plausible to me, but I'm not claiming to be an expert.
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Actually, turns out I misunderstood part of her post and it's not a full 3 cycles. The first rinse, which I thought I'd understood to be a full cycle, is actually just a rinse. But that's still two and half cycles. 3 full 'rinses' (one hot) after her regular wash.
She told me that her reason for this is simply convenience because she wanted to be able to rinse in hot and doesn't have a hot rinse option. So she'd set it for another cycle and then forget to come back to stop it so it would go to the cold rinse again.
I get that this may be what's easiest for her and that's great. But I disagree with her stance that you can just use a large quantity of any old detergent without getting build-up and without stripping. She hasn't had to 'officially' strip her diapers because she essentially does it every time she washes.
Yeah, I was wondering about the ammonia = bacteria thing too. I'm not entirely convinced though, I seem to recall reading that something in urine (urea is it???) naturally turns to ammonia over time. Although I don't recall where I read that and how reliable the source was, so I couldn't really comment on it...
Karen.
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| My DH's theory about why build-up would have an ammonia smell has to do with the chemical reactions with the acid (urine) releasing the detergent (think soap scum) stuck in the diapers. That's why they smell fine until they are peed on. That's also why vinegar may be effective in helping to combat build-up, because as a mild acid it can help to release the detergent crud, while not harming the diapers. |
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i have only used cd's a month and actually have always used a cup full of detergent, and now i have the ammonia problem (FL washer). so i might have to lean toward buildup, but who knows? and now i can't get rid of it! i am borrowing another brand of diapers from a friend, and their company does not recommend using vinegar or baking soda (absorption?), so i don't have the freedom to try that since they're not my diapers.
i just used tide free (had been using all), did a cold rinse, then a hot wash, then a warm rinse (still had suds), and on a few of the bum genius liners, i can still smell a very faint smell if i put my nose in them. the ME smell fine but still get strong smell with wear. i also don't want the hassle or expense of multiple washes, as noted by others. now i'm worried that i'll return the friend's diapers without the problem solved. yikes! help! i have appreciated the solutions thus far, just wish i could do something once and have it taken care of. :-( |
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