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in the post about how oxyclean is bad, mother-ease mentions that when one first gets the diapers don't wash more than 8 to 10 at a time. I would like to add, that for the duration of diapering one should not wash more than 8 to 10 diapers at a time.
Washing too many diapers at a time concentrates the rinse water with urine, and I don't know if this puts bacteria or protein or other particles in the diapers that chemically react to urine to produce amomnia.
If it is bacteria, the bacteria needs to be killed, if it is protien particles they need to be released from the diaper. Either way this means that one needs lots of baking soda, and perhaps bleach.
It doesn't matter the amount of water one uses, what matters is that the water and particles are rinsed out good (and what ever is in them removed) I personally find that front loaders are best for this, because the top loaders tend not to rinse out the water, even though emotionally they seem to be rinsing because they soak clothing and use lots of water.
I recommend also using no more than half the amount of called for soap (soap although lubercates dirt particles so they can be rinse away easier, soap can also trap dirt if it is not rinse out, for example if you shampoo your hair and dont rinse the shampoo out very well, your hair is dirtier than before you washed them, and the dirt is attracked and sticks to the hair even more) most likely if you have been using recommended amounts of detergent than your clothing has enough soap residue in them that you don't need to add any soap to your wash for quite a while.
it may seem like too small of a load to wash only 8 to 10 diapers at at time, so I would recommend washing other items, with the load, such as clothing or linens or whatever you feel comfortable to mix with your diapers in the wash (your preference) this is not so weird, if your child was older and had an "accident" most likely you would wash this clothing with the regular laundry too. (I understand that some folks have prolific poopers, the poopy diapers can be kept separate from urine diapers if one prefers.
to strip diapers, I would recommend one, use the bath tub, and one by one, scrub baking soda into each diaper. and turn the bath water into a baking soda soup with diapers (this takes lots of baking soda) let sit, the longer the better, perhaps overnight, let diapers absorb the baking soda, if you can't wait that long, then perhaps do this a couple of times, rinse the diapers with some bleach, this should kill bacteria or release proteins and excess soap, but if you have lots of soap in your diapers they may be acting as a glue holding the substance in them that causes the smell. |
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Well, to each his own on how they wash diapers. I completly agree on using much less than the recomended amount of detergent. The more you use, the more difficult it is to rinse out and build-up can lead to odors, stains and skin irritations. No argument there. But the rest...
I just can't agree that if you have more than 8-10 diapers per load means you're likely to need lots of baking soda or bleach. ME recomends this for lint reasons, if you pre-wash more than 8-10 brand new diapers, you'll end up with a washer full of lint. And it's true, I discovered that the hard way a few years ago when I forgot about that bit of the instructions. But I've been cloth diapering for over 10 years and never had to use either baking soda nor bleach and I've always washed 20-25 diapers (plus lots of liners, cloth wipes and fleece stay-dry liners) per load. I know very few people who've ever had to use bleach and I've been hanging around cloth diapering forums for 8 years now. Baking soda can be a helpful additive to a pail or in the wash, but it's rarely necessary.
It's an interesting theory and may help some people. But the vast majority don't have problems washing a washer full of diapers... Many people run their diapers through a pre-rinse (especially necessary in the exclusively breastfed days when most don't dunk/rinse their poop diapers) so this already helps greatly reduce the sheer load of urine and feces in the washer. The rest is easily dealt with by the washer.
Everyone has their own stripping routine so yours is as good as any but I don't see any particular advantage to it. Far as I know baking soda is good at removing set-in odors but if the problem is a detergent build-up I don't see how it would help. Much simpler to just put them in the washer and run them through a few hot washes, maybe soaking in lots of vinegar (maybe with a water softener if one has hard water) as the acidity helps dislodge mineral build-up. The basics of stripping to remove build-up should always be lots of hot water 'rinses' and bleach is almost never needed. Although in theory you're right that it's not the amount of water that's important, it's that everything rinses away well, the fact is that water is what rinses everything away, so if you don't have enough then things just won't rinse well. I have nothing against front loaders but in my experience they just don't offer any advantages to cloth diaper users (lots of other general advantages, but not for cloth in particular) and can indeed be problematic sometimes.
I always just tell people to start simple with a basic routine (cold, plain water pre-rinse, hot wash with minimal detergent, followed perhaps by an extra rinse just to be on the safe side). Then IF they have issues, they can start changing things up, adding steps or additives as may be necessary. That's my personal theory anyway...
To each their own, cloth diapering is really more of an art than a science and everyone has their own variations that work best for them. This works best for you and that's all that matters really.
Karen. |
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| perhaps your right, I just see all these posts about smells, and my sister had smells following regular methods and I did not (my method was originally lazyness) LOL |
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I think the biggest reason people have odor problems is overusing detergent. It's just not intuitive to use less detergent for cloth diapers. Unless you know about detergent build-up etc... intuitively one would think that diapers are 'dirtier' so actually need more detergent. It's just not commonly known unless you hang around cloth diapering boards...
Plus boards like this give a skewed view of reality in terms of odors and such. People rarely come here to say everything is going well, they come when they need help with something so it's probably not really reflective of what most cloth users are (or aren't) dealing with.
But I do like the idea of encouraging people to not waste water by washing diapers with clothing. And I really like the idea of spreading the word that there's nothing horribly disgusting about diapers. Some people don't even want to wash their diapers in the same washer that they wash clothing in, anything to spread the word that germy diapers really aren't a concern is a good thing in my books!
Karen. |
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| I don't belive my sisters diapers were loaded with detergent, especially because they were easy to strip using baking soda soaking in the tub, but washing alone could not get rid of the problem, I assure you they appeared to be clean diapers, even smelled good when dry.. but they definately had bacteria or protein molecules that needed to be removed because every time they were peed in they emitted a horrendous amonia smell. I am thinking that if its hard to strip with baking soda soak then, it has too much detergent, and also that the excess detergent trapped the bacteria or the protein (I really don't know the chemistry of what was in the diaper that caused the problem. Anyway, they had smell after being peed in, that a baking soda water soak in tub then a washing with bleach removed them. the main difference in how she washes and I do. is that she uses a pail, washes all the diapers togethr with no other clothing washes, washes at least 2 or three times as many diapers at a time than I do and waits every other day to do a load, instead of washing every day. she also was using a top loader and I was using a front loader (btw, another advantage of front loaders is that my children can reach to do laundry also) anyway it appears my more laid back approach, never had problems that my sister had. and I was doing it a lot longer than her, with a lot more kids. |
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I wasn't referring to your sister in particular, just cloth users in general from what I've seen on the boards...
A horrendous ammonia smell like that is usually indicative of a detergent build-up, your stripping routine, especially the bleach could easily be what got rid of it. She probably could have just stripped them with lots of hot water in the washer and it would have been fine.
Never thought of the kids doing laundry thing, man now THAT is mighty appealing with a family of 6!! LOL! Seems like I spend my life doing laundry! And even my 10 year old isn't tall enough to reach into the tub of our washer... Hmmm, now that's actually very tought provoking for me because our washer probably only has a couple years left and I've been debating the merits of front loader vs top loader. I almost never wash in hot (except diapers, which I'm now only washing my twins nighttime diapers) so the energy/water saving aspect wasn't that appealing, especially that water isn't a rare commodity where I live. Not that I don't try to save water but I didn't know if it was worth shelling out the extra bucks for something that wouldn't really save me personally any money. BUT the doing-their-own-laundry thing is very very appealing. Especially that they could do small loads as needed without wasting water (my understanding is that most machines only use as much water as needed right?)... Especially that I'll eventually have 3 teenage girls in the house.... Hmmmmmm...
Karen. |
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lol, yep, my 10yo consistently does laundry as do I and dh.
(the three of us take turns: wash and dry and 7 year old helps, but she mainly sorts, as does her 4 yo brother and we all put away except for baby, well sometimes he gets clothing sorted near him or is carried by dh or me while we do chores) |
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I though the comments about a FL rinsing better were interesing, because it reminded me that several of the salespeople I talked to about FLs mentioned that as well. I have no idea about which one is really better on normal clothes, but suspect that the FL issue with diapers arise because the diaper don't weigh enough to trigger enough water for all the many layers. And that's somewhat consistent with the theory about washing fewer diapers in with other clothes, since you might get a better ratio that way, if that makes any sense, since of the 25 items, only 8 are the multiple layers but you are probably getting about the same weight/water, or more, as washing 25 diapers together. On the same lines, I would wonder if FLs yield better results for wet-pailers, since wet diapers are going to weigh more.
Karen, whenever you get to replacing your current washer, it would be worth reading up on washer performance. I got a front-loader last summer for a variety of reasons, the main one being that here in CO using 1/3 of the water of a TL is a big deal, but also because when I read a summary of washing machine performance (think it was Consumer Reports, but not positive), it basically said that recent (think it was three years and newer?) TLs don't clean very well (with a few exceptions, but those tend to be pricier, nearly eliminating the cost difference with FLs), because they've had to somewhat reduce their water use. Who knows what the situation will be by the time you're shopping, but I thought I'd mention that it'd be worth reading up on (sure you would anyway . . .)
Another reason to think about a FL, though, is that they are way more gentle on your clothes without that agitator. No more getting clothes tangled up. I never bother with a delicates load anymore; as long as there aren't clothes in the load (like overalls with buckles) that can beat up the delicate items, I figure that a normal FL cycle is gentle enough. And if you get one with a high spin-speed (again, you pay a little more), you will be *amazed* at how much drier your clothes come out, so it's easier to rotate your family's clothes through if you rack-dry, or a lot less time (and energy, $$) if you use the dryer. Can you tell I'm a convert??? :-)
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| oh ya, its okay to wash sleeping bags and comfortors in FL but not TL, since no agitator to rip them up or get them unbalanced. |
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Thanks you two, I'll have to consider those things when the time comes. I wonder how FL compare to the new generation of TL though? I've been told some of them are just as water efficient and some have no agitator either (just a small 'bump' at the bottom). Wonder if maybe those are the ones that you've heard clean less well Audrey?
I've washed my Queen size comforter in my top loader and it's not too bad for balancing. It did recently develop a rip though (have washed it maybe 6-7 times or more so far and the rip is new), never occured to me that might be why, I wonder? Getting rid of it son anyway, but something to consider for my next one. We're building a new home this spring and I've been shopping for new quilts for the whole family (the kids had none at all) and I would hate to ruin them by washing them in my washer. I'm paying what I consider to be a lot of $$ for them and I'm counting on them lasting *forever*!!
Karen. |
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