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Just curious if these diapers will realistically go up to 12lbs. I am hoping to use Neworn Sandy's up to 12lb and then transition to One size diapers that we already have. Also, is there a big difference between the XS and S AF covers?
Thanks |
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I loved my XS sandys! There was a really big difference between those and the size S. We used them up till about 13 lbs, although my little one didn't have chunky thighs, she was more the beanpole variety. We used them with the lower leg snaps unsnapped at the end. which worked fine and still didn't leak. You'll find the extra bit of money for the XS AFs is well worth it - the S look huge over these dipes, although theoretically could be used, epecially if adding any extra liner. The XS are so small though, that the little non-snapping liners are too long to fit in them, you have to fold them or put them on the outside of the dipe. I would totally spend the $ to go this route again if I was to buy them all over again. (Actually, I'm going to do exactly that because a friend accidentally ruined all of my XS sandys in a bizarre laundry episode, but refunded me so I'll buy new ones, but this time I'll get bamboo (trimmer)).
HTH! |
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Just to give a different opinion from the PP... We used the XS (newborn) diaper only for about 2 months. Can't remember DS's weight, but he was 7 pounds at birth. We also used the OS right from birth, and after a week or two, once we got used to the bulk, we started preferring the OS. And given that the XS lasted us so little time, we figured it wasn't worth it for us.
But it really depends on your baby and your preferences. We had our baby mostly in pajamas, not that many cute outfits, so the bulk wasn't an issue. One thing for sure: if you were to go that route, you OS will definitely work once you're done with the XS since for most people, they work right from birth. |
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I think it really depends on what kind of 12lb baby we're talking about. I used mine a little past 12lbs as well but my girls were pretty tall with slightly chunky thighs and tiny waists. If I remember correctly they outgrew the thighs and rise way before they would have outgrown the waist (I also use them with the bottom snaps undone for a while).
We ended up using them for about 4 months and for us it was totally worth it. I loved my x-smalls and would definetly get them again if I were to have another baby. Others have kids that just zipped through them and they felt like it was a bit of a waste so it's hard to say how you'll feel about them. I would weigh factors like how much you think bulk will really bother you, how big babies in your family tend to be (if everyone tends to have 11lbs babies then maybe it's best to skip the x-smalls kwim?) and also how many children you plan on having (ie if there are one or two more to come then it's more worth the investment because you'll be able to use them for 'free' on upcoming babies). Don't forget too that you can resell them once you're done. They'll almost surely be in great shape (even if you end up using them on 2-3 babies) since they're used for a relatively short period so you'll get a good chunk of your money back on them...
Karen. |
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| Thanks for the information, we tend to have small babies so it will probably be worth it. |
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| Regarding your question about the covers, they are both listed from 6-12 lbs (which I find a little curious; XS wasn't around when I was buying my diapers), but the XS cover will only work over the XS/newborn diapers, so that has to mean the S is cut a little larger, because it will work over both the S Sandys and the folded-over OS. Many people find that they can use their S AFs to a higher weight (heard of some people still using it at 15/16 lbs, but that has to come down to baby build). I should say that I haven't used the XS diapers or covers, but here's my thought. If you already have some OS, do you already have M covers? Because if you do, and are thinking about getting the XS covers for your XS diapers, then you should be able to skip the S and go straight to M when you move to your OS. (The reasoning against that would be if you are thinking you'd maybe be using your OS as backups, when out of XS Sandys, etc., because then your XS covers wouldn't fit . . .) |
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| I don't recall how much my boys weighed when I moved them from the XS to S Sandy's. My boys came home from the hospital at about 6 lbs at 5 weeks old. I think they were probably 3-4 months old when I moved them to the S Sandy's. However, they were on high calorie formula and fortified breast milk and put on weight faster than full term babies on regular formula/breastmilk. If I had to do it over again, I would not hesitate to go with the XS again! I sold mine when my boys were done with them. I did get the XS covers with the XS Sandy's. Then when I called to order the S Sandy's and all covers through L, I didn't even think about skipping the S cover. However, whoever was doing the order knew and my order only contained the M, ML, and L covers. I guess my thought on the whole thing is even if I find I could get clothes and everything to work fine with the OS from birth, I would not be comfortable with such bulk if it were me. The bulk can make the lower half of the body rise above the upper half awkwardly (an definite issue in babies with GERD/reflux). So, I want to give my babies the same comfort I want. I am not a fan of rolling up pants and sleeves a bunch to accommodate a bulkier diaper. Imagine if that was you with that much bulk (relative to your size) at your wrists and ankles! I also have a son with pretty significant sensory integration issues and his twin also has some sensory issues. So I am quite aware of what can potentially happen when infants are in situations where they are getting uncomfortable sensory input. (Keep in mind I have preemies who are at greater risk for sensory issues anyway, but it has made me more aware in general.) So, I am all for using the XS! |
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Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree that bulk is a concern for the average baby. Now obviously you know your own babies more than anyone so I'm certainly not speaking about your own situation, but I just don't think this is something the average mom has to worry about.
Babies have worn bulky diapers for ages with no problems and many developmental therapists even recomend bulky diapers for babies with hip problems. And pants/sleeves don't have to be rolled up that much to accomodate the bulk, we're talking 1-3 rolls usually, certainly nothing that babies would notice. Heck, I do roll my jeans (or hubby's shirt sleeves) up like that and it's not uncomfortable in the least. It's a little annoying if it doesn't stay up on it's own, but that's not something a baby would have issues with, especially non-mobile ones. I've had my girls in huge nighttime diapers with no complaints (we're talking really really bulky here - they were super heavy wetters for a while there). We're talking verbal and perfectly mobile toddlers here and they didn't say a word. They waddled like ducks and looked rather silly, but not a peep of complaint!
I just think this could potentially lay a highly unnecessary guilt trip on new moms. Not to mention that I suspect this could encourage many to think that disposables are better because they're trimmer than any cloth will ever be... I just would hate for the notion to get out there that diapers must be as trim as possible, just the cost of a minimum of 3 sets of different sized diapers could scare many people off. I did love my x-small Sandy's and I do think they're worth the money if people can afford them, but I realize that this is almost exclusively to satisfy my own sense of aesthetics, not out of any legitimate concern for my baby's health or comfort.
Karen. |
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Karen, your point is correct that all babies are different. My point was to think about how your child may feel and take that into consideration and then observe how your child may be responding.
As for rolling up your pants and shirts, think how many times you would have to roll up your pants and shirts to get the same relative bulkiness of three rolls on an infant. I actually think it would be less uncomfortable moving around with that then if I was laying down and slightly awkward (ankles and wrists up above the surface of the bed/floor and bottom possibly above the level of the head).
It is PTs and OTs and developmental therapists who I have heard mention/discuss the need to buy those hardly used newborn sized outfits because of the bulk of rolls. Those of us who have children with developmental delays and sensory integration issues will be more aware of this and it will relate more to our kids, but that isn't to say all parents shouldn't keep it in mind.
My boys are in quite bulky night diapers and I do have to roll their pants now, but it is quite different than it was when they were six pounds.
As for babies wearing bulky diapers for ages, I think cloth diapers are now bulkier than they used to be due to the increased absorbancy. At least that is what my mom has commented comparing my boys diapers to the ones I wore.
Again, it's all about just being sure to keep different things in mind when you have options and to do what is best for your baby. |
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I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think this has anything to do with all babies being different. I think the issues that your boys have are very rare and not something that the vast majority of moms need to even consider. I think that this relates *only* to parents of kids with sensory issues, not just 'more' to them.
As for therapists telling you this, they told you this in relation to your preemies that had sensory and other issues. Not in relation to an average newborn... There's a huge difference in maturity, development and sheer size between a preemie and an average newborn or infant. I'd love to hear if these therapists really think this is something that the average parent needs to be concerned about. I've been on baby boards of all kinds for over 11 years now, I often watch 'parent' tv shows and parenting segments on regular shows and I've never ever ever heard that people shouldn't roll up the cuffs/sleeves on their babies clothing. This is something that common even in the non-cloth diapering world with people who just don't want to invest a small fortune in clothing that will be outgrown in a matter of weeks or even days. I can't imagine that we wouldn't have heard about such a common practice being potentially significantly uncomfortable for the average newborn (how many times do we hear advice about keeping our child as comfy as possible so that they'll stay asleep longer for example).
As for thinking about how the baby will feel and observing them, well I think that asking parents of full-term, healthy babies is basically asking them to find something to worry about. Most parents, especially new parents, are already plenty sensitive to their child's needs and comfort, telling them that in regards to the bulk of their diapers is almost guaranteed to have them finding fault with the diapers. It'll become a self-fulfilling prophecy and many will only want to use the dryest possible, trimmest possible disposable. And really, if we take your argument to it's natural extension, we'd all be practicing ellimination communication because sitting in *any* diaper, bulky or not, can't be all that comfy in the first place...
I just think it's pointless and potentially risky to suggest that all parents take into consideration issues that concern only those with very specific issues or illnesses. It's just not true that the trimmest diapers possible are 'what's best for your baby' and to suggest that is unfair, inaccurate and has great potential for driving people away from cloth in droves.
Karen. |
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| My ds is 4.5 months old and 14 lbs or so. He is still in his xs Sandy's - I'd say he has average thighs - but we did have to start using ths S cover about a month ago. |
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| My ds is 4.5 months old and 14 lbs or so. He is still in his xs Sandy's - I'd say he has average thighs - but we did have to start using ths S cover about a month ago. |
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KarenC,
Have you ever heard of sensory integration disorder? It is not that rare and not limited to preemies or kids with any health issues. It is found in children who were full term and healthy. I would not expect parenting TV shows to give any info on this (shows which can give very bad suggestions that research shows would not help a given situation). It is only recently recognized as a neurological issue and even some doctor's still don't know about it or accept it. Therefore I would not expect everyone to know about it even though it is not rare. However, it is very real. I am a special ed teacher and no where in my training was this even mentioned. However, I had a very bright student who could barely function in school because of his sensory integration issues (which were eventually barely issues because we taught him to cope).
As for my boys, they had no indication of any sensory issues until a year old with one and many 18 months with the other (and his are not so bad). So buying appropriately fitting clothes was not told to me by anyone in relation to any sensory or other issues (my boys had no issues at the time and were expected to develop completely normally) or even size. My boys were over 6 lbs when they came home and quickly jumped to over the 50th %ile on growth charts, now at over the 75th %ile. In fact, although I couldn't begin to tell you where, I read of the suggestion to buy even newborn sized clothes on the internet and it was not in relation to children with any medical or developmental concerns. It was in relation to newborns who are making the transition from a weightless womb to an environment after birth in which there are all kinds of new, strange sensations to try and process and adjust to. So if this was told to me and I read it somewhere completely different, it is not the opinion of one.
I do not take the slippery slope theory and in no way suggested parents don't use cloth diapers, don't diaper their babies, or anything like that. I merely suggested that this is an additional thing to consider when deciding on diapers, if you have an option.
It does not sound like you have any children with sensory integration disorder or that you know much about it. Therefore, I feel it disrespectful for you state that my addition to the thread to be "pointless and potentially risky." Parents can take it or leave it. And, if it helps someone out, it is that much better! Just being aware of something that occurs with some children in no way gives parents something more to worry about (and if one does sit worrying about it, I worry about that parent), but makes them more aware so that if the issue does arise they have an idea of something more they can do to keep their child comfortable (so that the may stay asleep longer or just in general).
Please, allow me to add my thoughts to the thread without seeming to contradict what I say--especially if it is an area where you do not have specific knowledge. |
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You're perfectly right that I know very little, if anything at all, about this disorder. I never claimed I did and I never argued a single thing you said about this disorder. My knowledge (or lackthereof) of this disorder is completly irrelevant since we're discussing your comments regarding *all* parents needing to be concerned about the potential dangers of bulky diapers and rolled cuffs/sleeves. If you were strictly speaking of how these things can affect children with sensory issues, then you'd be right in telling me to basically shut up because I don't know what I'm talking about (and although I'm not really upset or taking offense to it, that is how your last post can easily be interpreted, especially that last sentence). But you're not. You're taking it one step further and including *all* babies and saying that all parents should be on the lookout for this. You're very clearly implying that one-size diapers and rolling cuffs/sleeves is just generally not a good idea and I take issue with that.
I'm sorry if you feel that I'm being disrespectful, that's certainly not my intention. But I do have serious concerns about your comments and the potential effect they could have. No slippery slope needed to see that many many moms are already concerned about the bulk of cloth diapers in general. Questions about bulky diapers on newborns is easily one of the top three posts to this very forum. Heck we even get the occasional concern about small Sandy's or even a couple times the x-smalls! They already have these worries, if you tell them they're right to be concerned what do you think their reaction will be? You may not see it that way because you obviously personally believe in cloth diapers, but for many people who are more on the fence, if they take your words to heart, the bulk of cloth diapers will become a 'con' on their list debating between cloth and disposables. I'm not saying that one post will suddenly cause cloth diaper sales to plummet, but bulk concerns are already such a big thing that I just hate to see anything feeding what I consider to be totally baseless concerns.
As for my reference to popular media, my point was not that this disorder was somehow less real because I hadn't heard about it on "The Mom Show". I wasn't even referring to the disorder at all in fact. My point was that if rolling cuffs/sleeves could be seriously uncomfortable for the average newborn (which is what you suggested) that I would have expected to hear about it somewhere, at some point in the last 11 years. Not exactly a rock-solid-take-it-to-court kind of reasoning, but I do find it odd that not only have I never heard of it being a no-no but that it's actually so often recomended.
And for what it's worth, I totally agree on popular media hardly being a reliable source of parenting information in many cases. My ears usually perk up each time a talk show has a 'parenting' segment especially because I'm just waiting for them to spout some myth or bit of misinformtion!
Karen.
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About 50-60 years ago mothers were told to give their babies formula because it was believed to be better than breast milk. We now know that isn't true. We used to think that newborns didn't experience pain. We now know very differently. So, just because in the last eleven years you have not been told not to roll newborns pants and sleeves and have even been encouraged to roll sleeves and pants does not mean that in time we won't all think it common sense (doesn't it now seem like common sense to most that breast milk is better than formula?) that what was encouraged for so long was in fact wrong.
No, it is not just newborns with sensory integration disorder (in fact this couldn't even be diagnosed in a newborn--but this period of a young neurological system can impact possibly having this disorder later and being cautious of sensory input and not overstimulating a newborn doesn't hurt) who may be uncomfortable by bulk, illfitting clothing, rolled sleeves, etc. I do think all parents need to keep their newborn's comfort in mind. That is not to say that you have to do everything this way or that way, but if you have a choice, you might make a different choice. Yes, I do think parents have the right to be concerned about bulk in their newborns--and then they can turn around and make choices to lessen that even while using cloth diapers! Just because something goes on a con list doesn't mean it is a deciding factor. If making a decision, I feel a person needs all the information to make an informed decision. Some information people don't care about and discard. I would never let bulk be a concern with choosing to use cloth because there are so many other more important pros for my boys' health (regardless of environment and financial), but I did make choices to reduce the bulk. Just because you feel the concerns of professionals who work with infants are baseless (the concern of buying properly fitting clothing) does not mean they are in fact baseless.
Again, let other parents decide what information they want to take or leave. I will state again that in my opinion the bulk of cloth should not be a reason not to use cloth, but that one should keep in mind attempting to lessen bulk and poorly fitting clothing with newborns when making choices about which cloth diapers and clothing sizes.
I loved my XSmall Sandy's, would use them again without hesitation, and would never use disposables over them! |
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If I can side-step this a little bit, I'd like to comment that I used the OS and S Sandys from 8 and 6.5 lbs with my boys, but don't feel that caused me to have to size up their clothes inappropriately, and it'd be hard to find two kids with more different body types and weight gain (and personalities!) Granted, I dressed them primarily in one-piece outfits until they were somewhat mobile (I think that one-pieces have the optimal flexibility for cloth, since they can expand a bit outward for a rounder baby, or longer for a taller babe), but I didn't have to roll up their sleeves or pant legs because of the cloth diapers underneath. The only serious rolling I had to do was with DS#1, who was so rotund that the first time he really fit into pants without their seeming too tight was 18-24 months size at 10/11 months (cloth or disposable didn't make a difference). And then I still preferred things like overalls. Other than that, anything, with or without feet, was either a little longer or a little shorter, but not rolled. As the boys got more toward a year or more, I have had to roll their pants, but that's really more about having clothes grouped by years instead of months, and then is much less about what is underneath, as the additional size of a cloth diaper becomes less relative to the toddler's size, and by the time I've had to roll, they've been mobile (which is also a cause for rolling).
I guess what I'm saying is that whether or not you feel that clothes bulk is a problem, I'd like to be clear that using a less-trim diaper option does not nessarily mean that you will be having to cope with extra clothes bulk. Given that many clothes now are designed for dispoables, you may have to give more thought to the clothes, and steer clear of pants depending on your babe, but assuming you are not trying to put an 8 lb baby in 9-12 months clothes, I really don't see this being too much of an issue for most people.
I guess I should also say that my boys didn't spend extended periods of time on their backs on a hard surface, which is where I would see the thought about their bottoms being a bit higher than their heads as something to think about. We aren't talking about a lot of distance here, and their cradle pads conformed to their shapes--heads and bottoms, as I suspect most surfaces on which one would put baby for long would? |
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That's certainly an interesting point about perhaps this becoming common knowledge at some point in the future. Who knows you could be right. But in the meantime I have 10+ years experience as a mom with 4 children that tells me this isn't likely (plus contact with hundreds, if not thousands, of other moms who have had the same experience I have.)
And I'd like to clarify that I never said that I thought the concerns of professionals were baseless. I think *your* concerns are baseless. From what I've gathered the professionals warned you that those with sensory disorders could experience discomfort with rolled clothing (although admitedlly some of what you posted wasn't very clear). They did not say that this was a concern for ALL newborns (and they did not say that bulky diapers were a source of concern), that's something YOU said. They have apparently expressed some level of concern (perhaps a casual 'just a small tip' level of concern, not a serious 'never ever do this' level) about this issue for one very specific group of infants. You are the one extending it to all newborns, not them. Please do not twist my words to make it sound like I'm arguing with experts.
I'm not deciding a single thing for other parents. I'm simply presenting another viewpoint that differs from yours exactly so that they can make an informed decision with more than one viewpoint. Unless you have some kind of true scientific evidence that newborns are in fact bothered by bulky diapers and/or rolled clothing then I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. You're giving them your *opinion* and I'm giving them mine.
And you can say what you want about you're not telling parents not to use bulky diapers and that this is their decision etc... But really, if someone tells you that something you're considering doing is potentially unhealthy for your child and you believe them, wouldn't you not do it? If someone believes you that bulk can be an issue, I think it's perfectly logical that they may chose not to use cloth. It wouldn't necessarily start out with that intention, but it may wind up with that final result if they get used to disposables (ie they figure it's not worth the financial investment to get newborn diapers so they start out with disposables). Cloth is about saving money to a huge number of people, so if they figure that newborn diapers are the only way they can be sure their little one will stay healthy they may decide that making those huge initial investments (and for some they are indeed enormous investments) isn't worth it and they'll just go with disposables that offer them the ability to just pay out small amounts at a time. I realize this isn't your intention but it's a definite possible scenario. It's certainly something to consider in evaluating wether it's really worth 'warning' parents of something with no scientific backing (ie that regular newborns are affected by this) or that has very little chance of happening (that their child would turn out to have a sensory disorder).
Obviously we don't agree on wether this is an issue for healthy 'normal' (for lack of a better word) newborns and that's fine. But I would ask that you respect that this isn't a matter of professional opinion or scientific fact. This is your opinion (as a mom who perhaps has a skewed view of these issues considering her profession and her family also being involved) vs my opinion. We are on equal footing here and I would appreciate you not treating me like I don't know what I'm talking about and should just shut up and leave this to the pros.
I also think that aavt has a very valid point here and I totally agree. Unless a parent is trying to put ridiculously large clothing on their child, the rolling has a good chance to be totally non-existent. You also seem to think that parents are rolling their child's clothing to a huge thickness at the ankles and wrists and that's just not accurate. We're talking a most a few mm 'extra' thickness and that's if it's even necessary to roll at all!
Karen. |
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| Karen, I am not even going to read your post or any others in this thread! Let it go! You don't have to agree with what professionals have told me regarding all newborns, but please just let me share my thoughts without telling me I am wrong. Normally I respect you and your opinions, but obviously we disagree here. Please allow others to state their thoughts and opinions without such contradiction! |
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Excuse me? Let you share your thoughts without contradiction? So if I don't agree too bad, I'm not allowed to post my disagreement? So only you are allowed to share your thoughts? Sorry, that's not the way things work. We are ALL allowed to share our opinions, not just you! Respecting your right to share your opinion does not mean that I simply stand silently by while you post things that I strongly disagree with.
Perhaps if you were willing to actually elaborate on these theories and what these experts have told you we could all participate in a real discussion. As opposed to you just telling us all the way things are and trying to forbid any dissenting/questioning voices.
Karen. |
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I know I'm beating a dead horse here but I thought this was important to add. It was suggested that the One-Size diapers could be harmful to babies with GERD and I just wanted to point out that this is *physically impossible* unless the baby is lying on their stomach (which considering the enormous success of the 'back-to-slee' campaign is relatively rare these days). The extra bulk of the One-Size is strictly in the front stomach area (caused by the front flap folding down) and between the legs (caused by the additional width at the crotch). There is no extra bulk on the backside/bum area whatsoever that would cause 'the lower half of the body to rise ackwardly', this is physically impossible. The thickness of the diaper on the bum is exactly the same on the One-Size as it is on any of the Sandy's diapers.
Not sure why I didn't think of this earlier but I thought it would help alleviate any concerns that parents with a history of GERD in their family or currently parenting a GERD baby may have. The only physical difference that the One-Size 'causes' is the slight seperation of the legs, which I've always heard/read is actually beneficial for proper hip development.
Karen.
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