|
|
|
|
|
|
I have really enjoyed the thread about training pants for the woman with twin boys. I didn’t want to hijack her thread with my questions, so I started a new one.
How important is the waterproof outer layer for the pants? I'm sure this question will highlight how little I know about potty learning, so thanks in advance. I used to think towel-thick undies were the only way to go. I now realize that most styles have a waterproof outer layer--that makes them look an awful lot like the pocket diapers. Is the waterproofing such a big deal during the day time? Or is the waterproofing mostly for overnight?
How important is it that training pants be "different" than diapers? As I just said, the training pants I've seen look a lot like diapers, but thinner. The appearance is so similar that I'm wondering whether I could just use my FB pockets with less stuffing or my Sandy's without covers, rather than buy training pants. If the "appearance" of something new for the child is important, then couldn't I just buy new diapers in different colors (colored sandy's, for instance)? If feeling the wetness is the big deal, then wouldn't sandy's take care of it? |
|
|
|
|
I think this really depends on the child. For some kids appearances (or the feel of training pant vs diaper) makes no difference at all and they go straight from diaper to normal underwear. For others if they were left in diapers would never 'get it' and just continue peeing/pooping their diaper (mine were like that, if they had a diaper on, they'd use it!). They need to realize that what they're wearing is not a diaper and that it won't function like one (ie will feel much wetter, get more saturated and perhaps leak onto their legs depending if it's waterproof or not).
I wouldn't recomend using it for nighttime unless your little one never wets at night and just needs something to catch a few dribbles that may escape from the time they wake till they get to the toilet. There's just not likely to be enough absorbancy to handle nighttime wettings, especially if there's more than one.
Other than that, everyone has their own way of doing things. Some use training pants all the time because they just don't want to have any messes on the floor (ie if you have new carpetting everywhere in the house). Others never use them at all and just use regular or slightly 'padded' underwear. Personally I would mostly use the training pants for when we went out and I didn't want to risk messes on the floor of a store or at a friend's house. At home we'd almost always just let them go naked. For nighttime we'd just put their regular diapers on, most kids are pretty good at knowing that nighttime is different and that it's ok to need a diaper then. That said, there is the 'big kid' psychological factor for some children and they come to associate diapers with babies only and resent being put in one at night. For them something that pulls on (like the bedwetter pant) and can be called 'special' or 'nighttime' underwear may help until they're dry at night as well.
I think for the 'different' factor it's more about how the training pants feel and how they function as opposed to just being a different color than their regular diapers. But that doesn't mean you absolutly must use training pants. Some use just regular underwear or non-waterproof training pants (most of the ones in regular dept. stores aren't waterproof). Some people do use diapers as training pants and it works fine for them. The only thing to watch for here is that they are able to pull them on/off fairly easily, usually setting the diaper looser helps with this and perhaps not putting pants on top of the diaper would also help (one less layer to remove kwim?).
Karen. |
|
|
|
Personally I don't think it is important to have them pull on or off their own pants in the beginning. If the child is chunky, they will not get it for a while anyway. Karen has a great point on how it depends on the child. Mine needed to be in regular underwear and did resist the bedtime diaper a little. I just used the Gerber Training pants that were thicker with the ME Airflows when we went out. At home, I just did not let him on the carpet. I only have 1 room with it.
I still help my son in the bathroom. I still plan on helping him for a little while now. We are 1 month in and he is pretty much done. An ocassional accident at night and he is just now starting to pull up and down his own regular underwear and still needs help.
I have potty trained 2 kids @ 2 1/2 years old(and helped many others) and I dislikle it when people call it "Parent Learning" (not just on the other thread but elsewhere too)on the style I use. It worked with both our kids. Maybe it is a parenting style. All I know is it worked for everyone I know that has tried it this way. The only parents I know having issues are the ones who admit to being inconsistant (due to busy lifestyles) and using pull ups or diapers.
Consistancy is the key. We went into underwear and never went back as it seemed like it would be confusing for them. I mean I think if you switch back n forth it is very confusing for a child. We never disapline for accidents. Always positive and loving. In the end, it is your choice. You have to do what fits into your life.
I am so glad we have this forum. These moms have helped me so much with my cloth diapers and momma stuff. Well, this is the end for me as all my diapers are gone on Sunday. They found a new loving home to someone who can really use them. Good Luck. |
|
|
|
|
Just so you know, on the other thread when I referred to my mother-in-law being the one that was 'trained', when she was training her kids she started very young (we're talking around 12 months here). So when I say that she was the one that was trained (which actually I'm just repeating what she said), it was quite literal. She would use a timer and set it to go off every 20 minutes and every 20 minutes she got the little one and put them on the potty. Even if they'd just gone 20 minutes earlier, even if they'd just had an accident, even if they were eating a meal etc... They basically had no real clue what was going on for months, no power to hold it in or let it out at appropriate times, the only reason they didn't need diapers is because they were on the potty so often that it was mostly inevitable that most pee/poop would end up there... In a way what she did was probably closer to a sort of ellimintion communication than it was potty training.
Nothing wrong with this approach, and I certainly didn't mean to offend or disrespect. As long as it's done gently and without reproach then what technique you use and even how old the child is doesn't really matter.
For my kids I did do something similar in terms of bringing them frequently to the potty (doesn't pretty much everyone do that to varying degrees and using varying techniques?) but they were a little older and I didn't use a timer!
Karen.
|
|
|
|
We never used training pants. Oldest son, I took him to the store to pick out some fun undies that he wouldn't want to mess up. I just committed to stay home for a few days and let him wear them. First day we had some accidents, second day maybe one and he would start to go but then run to the potty ..same thing on day 3 and by day four he would just "trickle" and then realize what was happening and run to the potty. Each time we had an accident I just gave him new undies and told him he was doing great. No special training pants, no special potty..and he was done after four days. (Mind you, I wait until they are 3 or show signs of REAL readiness before even tackling it) That is the best advice I ever got from an experienced Mom. Second son was 2 1/2 and just wanted to be like big brother so he started removing his diaper and going to the potty himself. I never even had to mess with it! HTH!
Amey |
|
|
|
I was not offended and as I said it was not just a term used here.
I think that is crazy too. 12 months? a timer?
Wow. |
|
|
|
I know you heard it elsewhere as well but I just wanted to clarify that I didn't mean anything bad by 'parent trained' or however I put it. 12 months and a timer seemed crazy to me too but then it worked for her and she was always really gentle and encouraging so what the heck? She didn't have ME diapers, must be why she hated changing diapers so much! LOL!
Oh, and by the way, hope you stick around even if you're not using diapers anymore! No law saying you have to be currently using them to chat here a little and offer others some advice! I'm only using them at night myself (and we are NOT having a fifth!) and I'm still here daily. Then again, maybe it's just that I don't have a life?? 
Karen. |
|
|
|
| Good point. I love the chatting. I think as moms our lives are not really our own are they??? |
|
|
|
For some potty training at 12 months is LATE! I read this insane article a year and a half ago talking about potty training at about three months! Now that was truly PARENT TRAINING! The parent watches for the child's indication that he/she has to pee/poo and takes the child to the potty. Wow! Because all I had to do all day for three months was to learn my boys' body language that they had to pee/poo so that I could start whisking them away to the potty--and never go anywhere! Oh, yeah, and according to this article, these kids whose parents felt them potty trained at 3-6 months old were truly independent at going to the potty later than kids who did traditional potty training!
My desire is that when my boys are potty training that they be independent. Of course I'll supervise, but I want them to be able (or nearly able) to pull their pants up and down on their own. Right now one of my boys can pull down his pants, cover, and diaper as one unit, but can't even attempt to get it on. Since I want this independence I don't want to use a diaper and cover. I still intend to use a training pant and the boys' AIOs for training. But, I'll wait until at least 2.5-3 years. |
|
|
|
|
Actually this is called Ellimination Communication and is probably the most common form of dealing with a baby's ellimination needs around the world. True, it's not very popular here in the West but it is in many many many other countries. It's done from birth with most babies, in developing countries it's probably because of lack of access to diapers of any kind and lack of access to facilities to wash any that they could find. In N. America it's done because these parents feel it's a cleaner and more natural way of dealing with things.
I have not used it myself but I have spoken to many people who have and it's worked wonderfully for them. Apparently if you know what you're looking for it's actually not that difficult to get to know the signs (just like you get to know the signs of when your baby is hungry even before they cry). And you certainly aren't stuck in the house all the time. There are varying degrees to which you can do this, many will use diapers part of the time. Not sure where your article got their facts but everything I've read and everyone I've spoken to says that the children are actually fully independant before most 'traditionally' trained children. They never get used to diapers so you don't have to spend any time getting them 'un' used to them. As soon as they are physically ready for whichever aspect of potty training (be it 'holding' their urine till they can get to a potty or be it pulling their own clothing up/down) they do it immediatly.
It is indeed the parent who is trained but many find this method much easier and healthier than cleaning up messes in diapers and/or washing diapers. I remember talking to one mom who said that the first time they had a poopy diaper (their dd was over 5 months at the time!!) they were so confused as to what to do that they actually brought her outside and hosed her off with a garden hose (they lived in a very warm climate btw). A good friend of mine did it part-time with her son, she's now pregnant with her second and will do it again with her daughter.
It's not for everyone for sure and it does seem pretty intimidating as a concept. I was curious about it but I never had the courage to try it myself, especially considering I was having twins and had two older kids, I was already overwhelmed and knew I wouldn't have much family support. But it seems like a wonderful way of being in touch with your child, the ultimate in keeping them clean and the ultimate in being eco-friendly.
Karen. |
|
|
|
| I like reading about Potty challenges. My three yr old boy is NOT interested. In fact, he makes up excuses ( I can't go potty b/c I have to go play hockey!). He loves his year-old sister and I think b/c she's in diapers, he wants to be in them too. We always keep it positive, but we're inconsistent with what he's wearing - underwear, dipes, training pants. We also don't put him on the potty because he doesn't want to sit there at all. So, as hard as it is to see all of his contemporaries in underwear while he's not, I'm just going to wait a bit and hope he's interested this summer when he can run around the backyard naked. He doesn't care, but I have to remind myself it's not a big deal! |
|
|
|
To expand on what Karen said about EC, if you think about it logically. PT makes LESS sense than to EC. For EC, from the get go you are learning to read the signs(much like hunger, discomfort, etc) and work with your baby to stay dry & clean. Cause & effect. Communication. For PT, you basically have said for the first 2-3 years of your child's life that it's OK to soil & wet yourself in your pants, now suddenly it's bad and undesirable. Think about it. Confusing? EC seems hard because it's not the norm here. But if you look at how it works vs what we commonly do now, EC makes more logical sense in a parenting approach. We feed on demand. Change on demand(poo, maybe potty) Comfort on demand. Nap on demand. Why not potty on demand? |
|
|
|
| I agree with you on this except the bad and undesireable part. Honestly I do not think it should be approached that way to the child. We let him be a big boy and he wants to be like us. He wants to do everything we do. This is why I say he is 2 going on 6. I know everychild is different, but I personally think it is all about the aproach and consistancy. It is a lot of work for it all. EC, PT and even diaper changes, but it is all worth it. I view it as confidence building as well. When he has a accident (which seem to be a few more this week now that school is out and there are more playmates) he is not in trouble. We just remind him he should use the potty to be a big boy. He understands if he has a lot of accidents in the day, he has to wear a diaper at night and if he did not, he gets to sleep in is roos. He loves to sleep in his roos. It amazes me how smart they are. I love this age. I love to see what they learn and how differently they learn! I love kids. I wish I had patience to have several 24/7. LOL! |
|
|
|
|
I have to agree with nakedbabytoes on the bad/undesireable part. I don't think she's saying that people commonly approach potty training in a negative way. I don't know anyone who scolds their child for having an accident or makes them feel like they're in trouble.
It's not about punishment or getting them in trouble, it's just that you're being inconsistant with the message you've been giving them since birth. You've been handing their 'needs' one way since birth and suddenly you want to start handing them a totally different way. This is naturally confusing and takes time for the child to grasp and understand. Whereas with EC you're consistant from the moment of their birth onward, no confusion, no trying to undo habits formed for the past 2-3 years, just a consistant way of handling their ellimination needs.
Karen. |
|
|
|
| Yup, that's what I meant. Thanks for reading my mind Karen! PT shouldn't ever be negative. |
|
|
|
| What about breast feeding to cups? baby food to solid food? Cribs to beds? I am not totally against it, but to single that out is quite confusing. How is positive encouragement & constsnt rewarding negative? |
|
|
|
|
Sure, there are transitions to be made in life as a child is growing up, no one is saying that all transitions are necessarily bad or to be avoided at all costs.
It's just that if doing something a certain way can avoid a confusing transition then all the better. We're just saying it's a plus to using the EC method... When you look at it from this perspective it makes EC seem much more logical and natural (which in our society it doesn't seem that way to most people).
No one is saying that positive encouragement or rewards are negative (although not everyone is fond of potty training with the rewards system, gotta say I'm not that big a fan myself - but that's another story). NBT was just agreeing with you about potty training not being negative. I agree as well. It absolutly can and should be a positive thing that reinforces a child's independance and boosts their self-esteem. I didn't use EC on my children and it's not like I think I did something horrible by potty training them.
But regardless of how positively this is handled, it's still likely to be confusing for a child. You spend 2-3 years setting up certain habits and then want to start undoing them. Why not just avoid setting up those habits in the first place? Especially if it has other benefits as well, like being more eco-friendly, more sanitary and more comfortable.
Karen. |
|
|
|
| I don't think diapers to potty training is confusing. Babies start in diapers, breast/bottle, cribs, etc because that is what they need. They make the transitions when they are developmentally ready. Technically you could feed a baby from a straw from birth. We don't do that. Not all babies communicate when their diapers are wet or even use different forms of communication when hungry, wanting to be held, etc. Through life we make all kinds of transitions. This is just one of those! |
|
|
|
|
I think bottle/breast to cup and cribs to big bed etc... are all vastly different transitions. Exactly because like you said, these are things that they essentially do need. They do not 'need' diapers. Diapers are there because they're more convenient for parents rather than constantly cleaning up dirty clothing and bedding.
I'm not saying that diapers to potty is horribly confusing or anything like that. Just that we are asking them to make a transition that isn't necessary if you use EC. Many ECers argue that it's not at all 'natural' for a baby to soil themselves (certainly not in the same way that it is for them to satisfy their urge to suck at their mother's breast or while being lovingly given a bottle), this is something that we ask them to get used to. Their 'natural' tendency is to indeed give us signs that they need to urinate or defecate. So if you know what to look for then you can enable them to not need diapers all the time, not get used to soiling themselves and then not have to get UNused to it later on.
Does every single baby on earth always give signs of this need? I don't know, I suppose some rare babies wouldn't and the parents of said babies would either have to figure out other ways of knowing or use diapers. No biggie, no one's talking about banning diapers here.
All we're saying is that EC is not as crazy or 'insane' as it seems when most of us first hear of it. That when you really think about it, many aspects actually make more sense than using diapers. I'm certainly not saying that diapers are bad or horrible or doing our children a big disservice. I used diapers and 'traditional' potty training on all my children, never even attempted to EC so obviously I can't think it's all that horrible.
Karen. |
|
|
|
Looks like my innocent question turned into a lively debate! Thanks to everybody who gave me their feedback on training pants. I was able to visit a CD store near my in-laws' home last month. While there, I checked out all the training pants they had in stock. Unfortunately, the store didn't carry some of the more affordable pants mentioned in this thread. They carried 4 types of training pants, and my favorite was made by ImseVimse. The IV pants are thin, have a hidden PUL liner, and will absorb little leaks on the way to the potty (but not a full accident). They feel and look like undies, not diapers, which I absolutely loved, and the thighs were roomie enough for my chunky gal without gaping. One idea I'm toying with is to sew in a ME doubler for naps and night-time. I'm also going to visit a couple of friends who CD and take a look at the trainers they use.
Thanks again! |
|
|
|
|