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| Hi! I found this site through the wonderful blog, Raising Arrows, and have been enjoying the discussions. My husband is a full-time student, I am a full-time college instructor trying to "put hubby through," and we are in the process of our second special needs, international adoption, and are looking for ways to cut expenses. Cloth diapers are one of the suggestions we've received. I think we're both feeling pretty hesitant about the idea of cleaning up poopy diapers! :-) Before our first adoption, neither of us had much diaper experience at all, let alone cloth diaper experience. We went through two intense weeks of what our missionaries called "diaper boot camp" at our orphanage (with 14 babies!), but that was with disposables. I would still like to at least try cloth. Our little guy is seven months and a chunka-wunka, or so the orphanage tells us, and as an e-mail from the missionary described him this morning, "to say he is 'all boy' would be a serious understatement." What would you suggest as a first cloth diaper experience (type, fabric, amount, etc.) for a cloth-hesitant and very, very busy set of parents to a heavy and active baby boy? Thanks for any advice! Much appreciated. |
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Hello,
Just a few words of encouragement... I was, at first, very reluctant about trying cloth as well, but I now hate disposables every time I have to use them (which is rare). Good quality cloth diapers never ever leak, which is so annoying with most disposables. I would much rather clean up a poopy diaper than poopy pants all the time. But I stress the "good quality" diaper aspect. I know of many people that tried cheaper cloth diapers to save money and gave up on them because they leaked, or they were too hard to wash. I have tried only Mother-Ease products after recommendations from several people and I have been 100 % happy.
If your son is 7 months old, you could buy One-Size diapers (not sure if the large Sandy's would be too big, I can't remember what weight babies are at that age, and the small wouldn't last for much longer). The perk is if you end up with more than one child in diapers, the one-size will fit either. Mother-Ease has all sorts of offers, you can get only one to try, or you can get a part-time package, or a full-time package. You will need covers too. The perk of Mother-Ease, also, is if you end up changing your mind about cloth diapering, you will be able to resell them for a decent price.
I would suggest a diaper sprayer as it makes cleaning poop much easier in my opinion. You can make do without it, but especially if you're reluctant, it's a worthy investment. Fabric really depends on personal preference: bamboo is trimmer, so may be nice if you're used to disposables (or to get clothes to fit), it's also antibacterial and softer. On the other hand, it takes more time to dry (which is especially relevant if you line dry or have fewer diapers), it is more expensive and it has not proven its durability as well as the cotton ones as it is still quite new. The number of diapers depends on whether you decide to just dive into it full-time or try it part-time first. If your child goes to daycare, you may want to check first to see if your daycare provider will allow cloth - not all of them do. Remember, too, that you will most likely want to change your son slightly more often with cloth diapers as they cannot take as much punishment as a disposable. Usually, people find that 24 is fine for full-time diapering when washing about every 2 days.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but once you establish a routine - for instance, start a wash when you wake up or at supper time or whatever, every other day - it's really not much work. It works better, it feels better because you don't have to keep buying diapers, you know you are doing your share for the environment, and it is believed to be better health-wise for the baby. I can't tell you enough how good it feels to walk past the rows of diapers at the grocery store without having to stop.
Good luck and don't hesitate to ask more questions! |
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| Wow, thank you for the thorough and thoughtful reply. I'm not familiar with the diaper sprayer. Is that sold on this site? I do think we could get into that "washing every other day" kind of routine. We are in a very small faculty rental just off the edge of campus, and the blessing of smallness is that everything is close together -- the washer and dryer are just a few feet from the babies' room and their play area (the living room), so no matter where they are when we change them, we can get the diaper to the laundry in just a few seconds. Our older one is a toddler, really, and just about ready for potty training, so we won't be considering cloth diapers for her, but I'd like to try it with our new little guy, and maybe with any who come after him. Thank you again for taking the time to comment -- somehow this feels like learning how to ride a bike in a whole new way, or maybe learning an entirely new kind of bike. We're just a little lost. :-) |
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Mother-Ease doesn't sell a diaper sprayer that I know of, but several other places do. You can easily hook it up to your toilet so you can spray the poop off the diapers instead of having to dunk and swish into the bowl. It can still get a bit messy, so we keep a pair of dish gloves for that purpose in the bathroom. Some people manage to do it themselves from parts at hardware stores, but we couldn't figure it out, and you need to make sure you get good water pressure in order to clean the diapers easily.
Here are some examples:
http://www.amazon.com/bumGenius-Diaper-Sprayer/dp/B0019HXQLS
http://www.thepottypail.com/learn.php
If you bought one-size diapers, you could use the same ones on your toddler if you want to try. Mother-Ease also makes great training pants that you could consider instead of using disposable ones.
I know that cloth diapering can be very overwhelming at first, it seems like yesterday that we were trying to figure it all out. But once you have your system in place, it's really easy and it did bring peace of mind to us. |
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Thank you, Fanfreluche, for the links! I'll show my husband. The sprayers look very "do-able" for our situation.
I appreciate your good comments and information. You have been so helpful! Thank you for responding. |
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We made our own diaper sprayer and it cost us about $12 (a big discount considering they cost $60 retail around here).
We followed the instructions on
http://gidgetgoeshome.com/2008/08/25/diy-tutorial-make-your-own-diaper-sprayer/
the site details what to buy (including pictures so you can find it where you get tot he hardware store) and how to put it together. One you have all the adapter it is simply screw the parts together... be sure to use teflon tape to avoid leaks. We got the actual sprayer head used from habitat for humanity restore for $1.
DIY is not for everyone, but if you are handy, this one is pretty straight forward. |
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| My husband is a DIY-er, so your suggestion is welcome and wonderful! Thank you, we'll give that homemade sprayer a try, and it may make the difference for my husband in whether we go forward with the cloth diapers. Thank you so much! |
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Hi there, sleepyknitter. Welcome to cloth diapering!
I was very interested in the idea of cloth diapers for environmental reasons and cost savings, but figured that I'd be in for a lot more work and worse performance. Actually, one of the reasons I went with ME was both the recommendation of the local "nappy lady" but also because they have good resale value, and I wanted to have a back-up plan. It's a lot of money to sink into diapers up front for something you haven't really tried.
I'd planned on phasing into cloth diapers, but they worked so much better than disposables and really weren't more work, so I had switched completely within a day and never went back.
I do truly believe that cloth diapers aren't more work than disposables--they are just different work. Yes, you are rinsing poop off the diaper, so you are a little more "hands-on" than when you just wad it up and throw it away. But it's getting poop where it's supposed to be, in the sewer system, rather than the landfill, and there are things you can do to make it easier on yourself. PPs have mentioned the diaper sprayer; I haven't had one of those but did use fleece liners--poop comes off them more easily than the terry and they also keep stains off the diapers. You can also use flushable liners; I'd planned on using them, but got used to doing without and just didn't care for that recurring expense.
Wet diapers just go straight into your diaper pail, dirties get the solids removed and then into the pail. You don't even need water in your pail. If you have a front loader, using a couple small pails that fit through the opening, or a pail liner you can lift and invert means that you don't have to touch the diapers to get then into the washer. You run a prewash or rinse to get most of the nasties from the diapers, then a hot wash with 1/4-1/3 of the recommended detergent amount. That's it. One great benefit of cloth is that you don't have a reeking garbage can. Even diaper genies have a bit of a smell, and otherwise, oh my. A diaper pail doesn't smell unless the lid's off.
It's such a freeing feeling not to be getting diapers at the store. You are so much more self-reliant and never have to run out. And although it seems weird, cloth diapering can take something that is gross and make it something fun.
I thought I was being a bit of a martyr going with cloth, but I love it! There aren't fora dedicated to people who use disposables, are there? :-) Currently, we're only using cloth at night because my second son is day dry. Yet I hang out here still, and there are several others who really aren't diapering daily any more but just love cloth diapering so much that we still like to talk about it. Kind of weird-seeming, but hopefully you will have a wonderful experience with cloth and understand this passion. :-)
On the financial side, I figured out that to make my intial investment on the diapers work, I needed to use them for a year to break even. I'm not sure where the numbers are these days, but I've already recouped some of that investment through selling covers I don't need anymore, and I haven't even sold my main stash yet. Seems strange, but once you use these diapers you'll understand why they have good resale value.
One more thought for you on this regarding being adoptive parents. Changing a cloth diaper does take a little more time than a disposable, certainly at first (you will get down a routine and be amazed how how quickly you can snap-snap things into place). But somehow this is a good thing. It's a few extra seconds to focus just on baby, and as adoptive parents, this may be especially important to you. Also, someone I knew who fostered children loved using cloth because once you have the diapers there's no more investment than detergent and water, and you are always prepared.
Regarding specifics of what might be a good diaper for your situation, I would think the One-Size (OS) might be a good choice. The OS can be bulky on a newborn (but fully functional) and can get most kids to PTing. I have a few L Sandys I have used for nights and like having them, too, but the bulk of my stash is OS, and I liked being able to use the same diaper on my 6.5 lb baby and 33-lb toddler.
Personally, if you are thinking of using these on more children, I would think about cotton, as it has a proven track record. It also dries much quicker than the bamboo (which is, to its credit, softer and trimmer, but in my book that doesn't outweigh the benefit of proven durability and quick dry time). I much prefer the AirFlow cover over the Rikki. This is not really a performance issue, but although the Rikki seems like it ought to be faster, being velcro, I always found it more fiddly to get just right, not having any velcro exposed to scratch baby's tummy. With the AF, you can adjust both waist and legs, and the snaps make it something you don't have to think about. You know the right (and always comfortable) setting and just do it. I've had 25 diapers for single kids (went to 40 when I had two in cloth), and found that to be a good number. |
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| Sorry for the enormous post . . . I just love ME so much I can't control myself sometimes! :-) |
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I can't really offer much in terms of advice that everyone else hasn't already covered but I did want to add a little something about the quality aspect of cloth. Over the years (my oldest just turned 11!) I've used quite literally dozens of diapers and covers. Part of my fun was experimenting with different types of diapers and looking for cuter diapers/covers. I can honestly say that none compare to Mother-Ease. Some were cuter, absolutly adorable, but the functionality just wasn't there. Others worked almost as well but were much pricier. Yet others seemed to work well at first but after a while we got odors & leaking because they were quite finicky to wash well enough to prevent build-up and repelling.
Mother-Ease have been the only ones that I could count on to be reasonably priced, easy to use & wash, durable and totally leak-free. The leak-free part is an especially important selling feature to me. Although they have an opposite reputation, good quality cloth diapers really leak much less than disposables (almost never - I can literally count on two hands the number of leaks I've had with 4 kids!). Yes, rinsing poopy diapers isn't fun (this is the only part of cloth that's even worth mentionning as being more 'trouble'), but when you count the number of sheets and outfits I haven't had to rinse out & launder, then it's totally worth it!
Karen. |
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Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness in responding! I appreciate your taking so much time to answer my beginner questions and help set my mind at ease. aavt, I loved your comment about "feeling like a martyr"! :-) I think that's my husband's perspective at this point.
And my husband is a little more excited about poopy diapers, now that he sees that he can do a DIY sprayer. The DIY was the magic word for him. :-)
It helps a lot to see everyone's enthusiasm on this post and others.
Karen, I appreciated your comments on the different types you've tried. We haven't had any leaking problems in two years with disposables, but our first little one is such an angel, so quiet and well behaved. Our new little one is reportedly just the opposite -- we're told he is quite the "live wire", a very active little man ready to run his own show, so I'm guessing our leak-free days are now limited. :-) If the one-size are leak free, they're high on my list!
Here is what I think I have learned so far from my thread (thank you, everybody!) and several others I have read:
-Use bamboo Sandys over night and on trips, and cotton OS (One-size) during the day at home.
-Large Sandys have a higher absorbency than the OS.
-Sandys have snugger elastic at the leg.
-Sandys are more expensive.
-Bamboo is softer but takes longer to dry than cotton.
-Bamboo is naturally antibacterial.
-Bamboo is grown naturally with no pesticides, but must be heavily processed to become fabric.
-Cotton seems to be more durable than bamboo.
-OS (One-Size) can take a baby from infant to potty training, but they sometimes don’t hold in “runny poops” a well as the bamboo Sandys.
-The OS is trimmer than the Sandy (the OS doesn’t need to be folded over and has fewer layers).
-Sometimes an extra liner is needed for the OS, for an extra leaky baby.
-The MEOS (Mother-Ease One-Size) has a slightly higher rise than the Sandys, so some moms prefer the MEOS.
-Toddle-Ease are good at night for large toddlers who are going to take a while to potty train. Otherwise, the OS is probably good enough from infancy to PT. The Toddle-Ease are very bulky.
Does that seem right? I think I'm leaning toward the OS for days, and Sandys for nights and travel.
The comment about Sandys being a little snugger in the leg was accompanied in the original post by a comment that they held in more nasty stuff, which made me think that some people DO have problems with leaky OS's. Is that true?
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Sorry to plague you again, but a couple of questions and thoughts:
1) how much does your first child weigh and how old?
2) your new baby is a chunk, by reports, but any idea about weights?
3) if children are special-needs, will those special needs possibly carry over into needing diapers for a longer time?
I'm asking about weights and special needs because although the OS is more flexible, the L Sandys does have more generous sizing, so if you thought your 7-month-old might be more than 20 lbs, the L Sandys might fit fine and might be be usable for weights higher than the appx. 35 lbs the OS maxes out at. It really depends on build, but most people find the L Sandys can go longer than that if needed.
I know you said your first is nearly ready for PTing--so why not switch to cloth now? S/he'll feel the wet and maybe be more aware. Also, I found PTing with cloth to be less of an all-or-nothing kind of deal than most of my disposable-using friends did. Maybe it's personality, too, but I found that we could go more gradually and with less frustration. With cloth you can very easily tell if it's wet, and easily put (and even pull sometimes, depending on babe) it right back on after visits to the toilet, so that the diaper can function as (very thick) underwear, initially with the cover, then without. My DS#2 took longer to get reliable, so I used his OS as underwear (he is skinny enough, still under 30 lbs, that I can pull the OS and L Sandys up and down on him). No cover, and usually clean and dry all day, but when he had accidents, they slowed the flow and limited the mess, and it's _much_ easier to deal with poop accidents with something with snaps rather than only pull-down. If you've ever priced pull-ups, you can pay for some cloth diapers pretty darn quickly. We still use our L Sandys at night for my 3-year-old. He'll get night-dry when he's ready, but in the meantime, it's not costing me anything but a rinse in the washer (since there are so few diapers, I just rinse the nights and the add in my whites to make a hot load).
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We must have been posting at the same time earlier. To your recent post:
You know, the place that we saw a real difference between cloth and disposables was with explosive breast-fed poop. I'm guessing you've never experienced this, as you said your baptism to diapers was in the orphanage, but it can be amazing. Some kids are jet-propelled, and others are no big deal. ME saved me so many outfits (his and mine, yuck!) that we eventually started travelling with cloth, because it was worth taking a suitcase of diapers not to have orange poop all over everything multiple times per day! I think I'm stills scarred! The same son would pee out of disposables, like out the side or something; in retrospect, I think he just peed so much at once that he overwhelmed the things. No problems with cloth. My second son just wasn't a leaker in the same way so I probably wouldn't have felt like cloth was a gift from God in the same way as when it saved me from the evil poop . . . :-)
One of the great things about ME diapers, whether you go with Sandys, or OS, is that there are two layers of elastic. So if babe has runny poop, is a sudden peer, very active, etc., there's more to stand in the way of leaks.
To your notes:
-Use bamboo Sandys over night and on trips, and cotton OS (One-size) during the day at home.
-Large Sandys have a higher absorbency than the OS.
Bamboo and cotton L Sandys have the same absorbancy, 15 oz, and bamboo and cotton OS have the same absorbancy, 13. oz. Because of this, the bamboo will be trimmer than the cotton, but for performance, they will do exactly the same thing. So if you choose bamboo, it will be for trimness (and perhaps for the renewable aspect, however you feel about that), not for different absorbancy.
The L Sandys is more bulky than the OS, so some people like to go with bamboo to get bit more absorbancy without quite as much bulk.
For additional absorbancy with either diaper you can get a liner that holds 7 oz (you can get it with snaps for the OS, but essentially they're the same liner, just with or without snaps). That takes you to 20 oz. for the OS, or 22 oz with the L Sandys. Although I have used the L Sandys for nights, I have travelled with just OS and liners, for the sake of simplicity, and have never missed those 2 oz. I did have to use a liner with every OS for a while with my heavy wetter, but will note that I also had to use a liner with the L Sandys during the same period. I'd like to think, however, that DS was an exception to the general experience. I have always been able to trust the OS for outings, travel, and nights if I used them. I'm not pushing you toward the OS, just don't want you to think that you must get different diapers for different settings/tasks.
-Sandys have snugger elastic at the leg.
-OS (One-Size) can take a baby from infant to potty training, but they sometimes don’t hold in “runny poops” a well as the bamboo Sandys.
Because there are separate snaps at the waist and leg, Sandys (cotton or bamboo; fabric makes no difference as this is a style thing) are more adjustable. If you have a very skinny child, or one with a big difference between waist and thigh, there can be leg gaps with the OS. Generally this isn't important, as neither the diaper nor cover has to be asbolutely tight and it will still, amazing, work beautifully, but if your child is prone to runny poops, esp. when active, it can become an issue. The cover will still stop the poop from leaking beyond, but it's much better to have it stay in the diaper. This was never an issue with DS#1 (super-chunk); occasionally an issue with DS#2 (skinny, fruit-loving climber). There are leaks and there are leaks; most of us wouldn't consider poop getting onto the cover to be a leak, as it's not making it past the diaper system. Poop on the cover should be very much the exception, but if you have an active, skinny (or off waist/thigh ratioed) runny-pooper, the L Sandys would probably be a safer bet. If you think there may be a period of dietary adjustment with your baby, this might be something to think about.
-Sandys are more expensive.
Only very slightly per diaper. Where it really gets more expensive is that you are basically buying two sets of diapers for your child (S and L), vs. one diaper with the OS. If you are starting with a child (or two) who could use the L, I would consider this a non-issue, unless you consider it highly likely that you will be adopting an infant in the future. If you are comparing bamboo L Sandys to cotton OS, then there will appear to be a greater price difference, but this is mostly the fabric difference rather than the style of diaper.
-The OS is trimmer than the Sandy (the OS doesn’t need to be folded over and has fewer layers).
This is true for the OS vs. the L Sandys. The S Sandys will be trimmer (although less absorbant) than the OS when it has the front folded over. Probably not relevant in your situation, but just to clarify.
I think someone else suggested this, but if not, I would strongly suggest that you order a trial pack from ME with both the OS and L Sandys (you'll have to call for the Sandys, but they do it, and I imagine they would be okay with doing two trial packs if it's for different diapers--they really are great to deal with). It's a good deal for the products, and then you can have them in your hands to play with, try on a (big) doll or your other child. You can read so much about these things, and it's great, but sometimes it's also so helpful just to touch something.
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No worries, I'm happy to hear your questions and thoughts!!! Everyone has been so helpful.
Our first one, K, is 2.5, and she probably weighs about 26 pounds or so. She's long and lean.
No idea on our little guy, L. I talk with the missionaries via phone every couple weeks, but I always forget to ask about L's weight. The lady says she can "hardly pick him up," but since I know she's hefting around much older babies, I think that's just her way of saying he's big for his age.
K's special needs are all hearing-related, and she's going to have reconstructive ear surgery, inner and outer, this summer. I'm hoping to have her PT'd by then. She's a bright and happy child and learns quickly. I haven't PT'd her before now because I thought she would be traveling with us to Taiwan to pick up baby brother, and I thought I'd rather change diapers on the plane than clean up accidents. At this point, though, it looks like K and I will be staying home while Daddy travels for brother, so now I'm ready to train the princess to use the royal potty. The only thing is, she doesn't like change. I know people say that about all toddlers, but K **really** does not like change. When we change her diapers every day, my husband always says to her, "Now this is change you can believe in," but she's not buying it. Still, I'm interested in your comments on cloth diapering and PT.
L's special need is potentially Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE) (his birth mom drank during the pregnancy), which can include an inability to understand consequences or think abstractly. I see that as a definite hurdle in potty training, but I know other FAE moms who have PT'd theirs eventually.
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aavt, you are sooooo helpful!
yes, I think we must have been posting at the same time and crossed messages.
Hmmm, lots to think about with the differences between Sandys and OS, and it does sound like a wise idea to get a trial pack with both, or to try to combine trial packs somehow.
And somehow, it just seems strange to me that I'm finding these conversations about poop so interesting . . . . |
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Yeah, well our poop all goes (straight) into the toilet these days (for which I am thankful), and I'm still talking about it.
See, that's what CDing can do, take something icky and make it okay. :-) |
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